At this point, What is really GNU?

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azzamite
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At this point, What is really GNU?

Post by azzamite » 2008/05/12 13:19:45

Hi there
In the latest revision of something that I'm writting, I write:
[quote]GNU: The Operating System
Linux: The kernel[/quote]
Which is right or so I used to think.

I got a note there wich reads:
[quote]The kernel is [b]part[/b] of the OS.
Here goes another [b]term[/b], find it![/quote]
And an arrow pointing to GNU.

Does anyone knows wich concept or term may describe an operating
system without kernel?
Because a tree without leafs may turn into a log.
And since Hurd isn't finished jet, GNU is an OS without kernel.

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AlanBartlett
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Re: At this point, What is really GNU?

Post by AlanBartlett » 2008/05/12 14:01:21

I won't attempt to answer your question ([i]At this point, What is really GNU?[/i]) but I will say I am pleased to see that there are other people who, like me, recognise that [i]Linux[/i] (a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds) is the kernel of an OS and not an OS. Linux, a kernel that emulates the functionality of the original AT & T Unix kernel from years ago . . .

[i]Red Hat[/i] have clouded the issue by releasing OS' such as [i]Red Hat Linux 9[/i] or [i]Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5[/i] whereas they should, perhaps, have used the names [i]Red Hat OS 9 (Incorporating the Linux Kernel)[/i] or [i]Red Hat Enterprise OS 5 (Incorporating the Linux Kernel)[/i]! :-D

As a pedantic Englishman, [i]Red Hat's[/i] misuse of the word [i]Linux[/i] does irritate me. :-x

With regard to your current issue, perhaps you could write:

[code]
[b]
GNU: The Operating System. (Currently incorporating the Linux kernel.)
Linux: An Operating System Kernel. A registered trademark of Linus Torvalds.
[/b]
[/code]

or perhaps:

[code]
[b]
GNU: El sistema operativo. (Actualmente incorporando el núcleo del linux.)
Linux: Un núcleo del sistema operativo. Una marca registrada de Linus Torvalds.
[/b]
[/code]

azzamite
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Re: At this point, What is really GNU?

Post by azzamite » 2008/05/12 14:17:54

I was thinking on writting:
[quote]GNU: programs, utilities, libraries and base system
Linux: the kernel[/quote]

If I where to mension Torvalds or Stallman I would be asket fot their
biography, and this ting is already larger than I expected it to be.

As of GNU, even if Hurd where to be completed GNU would stay as
the concept that I'm seeking since I doubt Linux would be deprecated,
thereof it whould be one and two kernels.

If "they" (linux developpers?) can't deprecate oss...
who would dare to try to deprecate linux? certanly not the FSF

scottro
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Re: At this point, What is really GNU?

Post by scottro » 2008/05/12 23:17:03

Everyone's right. However, is Apache from the Gnu foundation? So, should it be called Linux/Gnu/Apache if you're running a web server? (For all I know, Apache is part of Gnu, if so, change it to another popular program.)

I think openssh, which is part of most base systems, is from the OpenBSD folks, isn't it? I don't think it's GNU-ssh. I can understand Mr. Stallman's irritation at being left out, and yes, Linux is just the kernel. Hey, that's why BSD is better. :)

As for me, I don't worry about it anymore. I use it, it works for me, and for better or worse, Linux is the name that is most frequently used.
Ok, let me go xerox this on the Minolta copier. :)

voltrem
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At this point, What is really GNU?

Post by voltrem » 2008/05/13 01:22:51

I'm willing to interrupt the convo and say a few words. There's not a universaly accepted definition of an OS. But I'm gonna quote some from the slides of Silberschatz's OS book.

No universally accepted definition.
“Everything a vendor ships when you order an operating system” is good approximation. But varies wildly.
“The one program running at all times on the computer” is the kernel. Everything else is either a system program (ships with the operating system) or an application program.
Most users’ view of the operation system is defined by system programs, not the actual system calls.

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