CPU advice

[dimm]

[quote]
TrevorH wrote:
I was reading your budget as ?20 for a case _and_ a power supply - i.e. ?10 each. Maybe I read that wrong and you meant ?20 each. Doesn't change my advice since every single no-name PSU I've ever had is now in the bin and every single Antec/Enermax is still going or has been outpaced by power hungry components. I've also learnt from sliced fingers that getting a case that's been designed rather than thrown together is much more useful than getting blood all over everything.[/quote]

I did mean together, a bundle ?20 for midi case with a 500W PSU. You must have been really unlucky as my machines (mostly desktops) have all had regular use and cheap components have never caused me a headache. Just out of interest, what sort of numbers of failed budget PSU's are you talking about?

As to cases, I've always gone with the cheapest and I know what you mean about sharp edges, but I haven't cut myself yet. I do agree that cheap cases can be a little frustrating with lids that don't align correctly, sides that are flimsy and can vibrate a lot. However after build, I rarely find the need to go back inside so I'm prepared to be careful during assembly and then forget about the cheap case for the next 18 to 24 months until it's upgrade time. I always rate functionality above aesthetics with almost everything in life, so if I can cut the case cost to get a faster processor or more ram, then I will always choose to do that. If you head down the aesthetic route too far you'll end up with a mac!

I do have to admit superstition of my own, which is that I always buy ASUS motherboards if I have the choice. I've had several in the past and not one has given me any problems so I've stuck with them. I know this is ridiculous, but that's the way the human brain works, spotting patterns that are not really there based on tiny samples.

[TrevorH]

I'm not someone who buys a brushed aluminium case with 200W of LEDs and windows all over it. The sort of case I buy has just enough design put into it to make it useful to use - thumbscrews to allow for easy side removal, recently I've had cases that have removable hard disk mounting bays but that's more by accident than conscious decision. More important, the last bottom of the line case that I bought had a 400W PSU and it blew up within a year or so. I replaced that with one from Maplin since I needed it up and running straight away and couldn't wait for a new one to be delivered. That PSU lasted not much longer before the entire machine started powering itself off at random - and that was a 670W PSU for a machine that needed < 300W so it wasn't overloaded. After I replaced that PSU with an Enermax it's been fine since but not much longer later I had problems with the machine overheating. That turned out to be the cheap case was not well designed so even though I'd added about 3 or 4 more fans to it (all blowing in the right direction I might add) it wasn't able to cope with cooling adequately. I replaced that case with one of a similar size but made by a slightly better manufacturer and the temperatures dropped by 20C even though it had exactly the same components in it.

As to how many I've had that have had problems, I'd guess that for my own machines I've had about 20 PSUs over the last 15 years and of those 5 have been cheap no-name ones and the others have been branded makes. That doesn't count the number of other people that ask me for advice about what to buy or how to fix something that's broken. A PSU may sit in the background and not get noticed but actually it's one of the more important components that you can buy and build around for stability. Maybe my own personal numbers are not statistically significant but I do know that all the branded PSUs I've bought have been retired due to old age and all the cheap ones have been replaced due to failure.

[dimm]

[quote]
TrevorH wrote:
As to how many I've had that have had problems, I'd guess that for my own machines I've had about 20 PSUs over the last 15 years and of those 5 have been cheap no-name ones and the others have been branded makes. [/quote]

Fair enough, you've had your experiences with cheap components, I've had mine, at the end of the day they're both anecdotal. What I really wanted advice on was the choice of processor as I'm confident with my selection of all other components.

Thanks

[pschaff]

[quote]
TrevorH wrote:
...
the entire machine started powering itself off at random - and that was a 670W PSU for a machine that needed < 300W so it wasn't overloaded[/quote]
Happened to me just this week - replaced with a name brand and life is good again. Both original no-name and replacement were 650W,

[quote]
dimm wrote:
...
What I really wanted advice on was the choice of processor as I'm confident with my selection of all other components.[/quote]
Buy the fastest CPU with the most cores, compatible with your chosen MB, that you can afford. If the MB chipset and integrated peripherals are CentOS-compatible chances are excellent that the CPU will work.

[dimm]

[quote]
pschaff wrote:
Buy the fastest CPU with the most cores, compatible with your chosen MB, that you can afford. If the MB chipset and integrated peripherals are CentOS-compatible chances are excellent that the CPU will work.[/quote]

Really good point about CentOS compatibility, I had forgotten to take that into account. I've found the page http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/HardwareList, is there a better place to look for possible hardware problems?

You advice conflicts a little with that given above
[quote]vonskippy wrote:
Unless all your apps are multi-threaded, multi-core will not deliver the same performance bump as a faster core[/quote]
For a development web/mysql/mail server with an incredibly light load, is it best to spend money cores or more performance per core?

[quote]
pschaff wrote:
[quote]
TrevorH wrote:
...
the entire machine started powering itself off at random - and that was a 670W PSU for a machine that needed < 300W so it wasn't overloaded[/quote]
Happened to me just this week - replaced with a name brand and life is good again. Both original no-name and replacement were 650W[/quote]

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data :-D

[pschaff]

[quote]
dimm wrote:
...
Really good point about CentOS compatibility, I had forgotten to take that into account. I've found the page http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/HardwareList, is there a better place to look for possible hardware problems?[/quote]
My usual approach is to pick a motherboard known to work with RHEL. That usually means a relatively conservative choice, not the latest chipsets, and could be verified with google, or if you can find a vendor that supports RHEL/CentOS/SL/etc. and uses that motherboard. AVA and Aberdeen are a couple I have used recently.

[quote]
You advice conflicts a little with that given above[/quote]
Not really. You may note that I listed [b][i]fastest CPU[/i][/b] first.

[antoine_h]

Hi,

here I give only my point of view, without much element to proove it.
mainly, it is difficult to explain all the elemnts that made me go this way know (and even if may be I change this within one or two or three years).

*************
I would take as many cores as I can : may be 6 instead of 4.
and 4 instead of 2.
=> apache, and mysql, ... are not using the same thead. even for the same request of the user.
plus, there are all the small process that run in the mean time, on the machine.

so, to get some speed/power, take advantage of parallel processing there.

*************
I would take a AMD instead of intel.
cheapest.... or to be precise : best quality and power for the price.
I have read intel delivers more speed per dollar.
may be.

*************
I would not take an APU of AMD.
the "A6" or "A8" series, with the socket FM1.
those "Accelerated Processing Unit" are some kind of bundle of Graphic processor and CPU.
that is good for PC for game.
... hence, you don't need this kind of new architecture.
Some comparison shows that the Phenom and the FX series are much more powerfull than the "APU" series.
this is normal : APU do some graphics... you cannot expect same result for those that do some graphics + processing.

*************
Definetly would take a SSD and a Sata 3 mother board.
access to the disk has been the bottleneck of PC and small servers for years.
it might start to be resolved... with those two things.

And keep the disk (regular HD) you have yet for not vital things of the machine.
(backup of course, but also things that do not need speed...).

SSD : 120 Go : they are much faster than the 60Go, since they are made of 2 chunks of 60Go, that are working in parallel (with the controler that does that... but now it seems that the SandForce controler... is doing it... as most of the controlers of the recent disk).
I like the OCZ Vertex 3.
it is a bit better than the other, for writing.
so, as you will write a lot of logs, a lot of DB, a lot of new code for new dev versions.... the good writer are better.
(avoid the usual benchmark that put in front SSD that read fast... for people that looks at films...).

whatever SSD... take a SSD,... this is a jump in speed of computers.

Sata 3 is good for transfert rate.
Sata 2 is ok two.

*************
PSU
I used to take the best, such as the Tagan that were really great when they appeared.
now, some seasonic, for the silence (my machines are also quiet ones... as I live with them...).
but... next buy (next week or so for my new machine) will be a very simple Advance box with psu 480W include, for 55Euros... and will see.
long time ago, I used to have no name psu.
I want to give it a try again... because when it come with PSU, I really feel that there is a lot of fuss about it (especially with the powers... such as 600W ... ) and that some basic noname might be far good enough.
the only focus I will have is the quality for the low consommation and high efficiency on energy matter.

*************
well, that is only my point of view.
hope it helps.

[pschaff]

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