systemd

[eehpcm]

Does CentOS 7 have the equivalent of Debian's

Code: Select all

apt-get install sysvinit-core

?

I'm quite serious about this. This isn't a troll. I want to get rid of systemd without having to switch to Devuan or Debian. Is there a relatively painless way to do it? If not, is it something that might be considered?

I fully understand it's unlikely that such an option will come from upstream. Maybe in a two or three years, if enough people abandon RHEL because of systemd, but not any time soon. Maybe the politics are such that the CentOS team couldn't work on such a thing, but maybe they know of somebody else that is.

I also realize that reverting to a sysvinit scheme would need replacements for packages that are now heavily dependent upon systemd. Things such as Gnome 3. But I view the loss of Gnome 3 as a winning feature, not a bug. My test CentOS 7 machine became usable once I'd replaced Gnome 3 with Mate.

I don't want to switch to Debian. I've become used to the tools and placement of significant files and quirks of CentOS 6. I don't want to have to switch because I'm too old and lazy to learn new things.

But the more I learn of systemd, and the more experience I have of its black-hole warping of everything around it, the more I detest it. I know I'm far from alone in this, from various tech forums I inhabit. Over the past year or so viewpoints have changed from "Only greybeards care about this" to "PoetteringOS has messed up yet again and it was a giant mistake to go down that route."

So I'm serious. Is there a relatively painless way of getting rid of systemd? Or should I start reading up on Debian now and switch my test machine to Debian before I put in much more effort coming to grips with CentOS 7?

--
Paul

[TrevorH]

No. CentOS 7 uses systemd and that's it. It does have a sysvinit compatibility layer that allows old-style initscripts to be used but it's systemd in control and it's unlikely to change.

In any case, as an init system, systemd is a big improvement. It's the rest of the feature creep that is annoying but almost all of that is in separate packages so you just don't install them.

[linuxnewb]

You'll get used to systemd soon enough. It's better. Also, current Debian is also using systemd. There's no escaping it.

[eehpcm]

Also, current Debian is also using systemd.

By default, yes. Then again, Devuan forked from Debian so it could get away from systemd.

There's no escaping it.

Yes, there is. Even on Debian. The escape mechanism is "apt-get install sysvinit-core."

So I now have two ways of escaping systemd. Sadly, both mean leaving CentOS. I was hoping there was a third way, if not actually present now then at least visible on the horizon.

[eehpcm]

In any case, as an init system, systemd is a big improvement.

From what I've read, it's not a big improvement. Even the promised speed-up in booting is said to be negligible, and that was its main justification.

It's the rest of the feature creep that is annoying but almost all of that is in separate packages so you just don't install them.

I don't know enough about it to determine whether the scary, stupid errors that have cropped up recently are in systemd itself or its modules. Or which modules are unnecessary, or how hard it is to provide alternative functionality that I require if I don't install the creature feep packages.

What I do know is that what started out as a few people labelling Devuan as the response of reactionary greybeards who can't move with the times has mutated, in less than a year, to a lot of people being very unhappy with systemd. I'd say it is now viewed with the same distaste as sendmail. Or Gnome 3. Or Windows 10.

Maybe you're right, and all those people are wrong. Maybe systemd is the mutt's nuts. Problem is, it now has a big image problem and people are switching to distros that still have sysvinit (whether by default or as an option). If that is repeated across the industry then CentOS is going to wither because of a massive reduction in take-up. You have a vibrant community because so many people use RHEL/CentOS. If significant numbers of people move away then the community will not be so vibrant, so even more will move away.

So you not only have to convince me that systemd is wonderful, you have to convince all the others, too, or it's still better in the long run for me to switch. I really don't want to do that. But if there's no sign of anybody, anywhere, thinking of doing for CentOS what Devuan did for Debian, I don't see much option.

[hunter86_bg]

Systemd improved the situation with the init scripts - now all services,targets ,etc have to follow strict rules. I have checked many init scripts - and almost none of them looked similar. Complete mess.
It is your own opinion to use init instead of systemd, but I can assure you that there will be very few distros that won't use systemd.

Of course you can always switch to UNIX or even Windows...