[SOLVED] bitten by 6.4 Xorg 1.13 ATI bug

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rbdavis
Posts: 14
Joined: 2007/07/31 23:49:00

[SOLVED] bitten by 6.4 Xorg 1.13 ATI bug

Post by rbdavis » 2013/03/22 21:49:13

Hi all,

OK, despite making a reasonable effort to figure out whether or not a 6.4 upgrade would trigger the xorg 1.13 ABI bug, I guessed wrong and my system is hosed. (Comments on http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS6.4 state that 'This should not concern anyone who uses the default drivers shipped with CentOS.' NOT!!!) I did a full 'yum update' on a system with onboard graphics using some kind of ATI chipset. I had never installed any 3rd-party driver on this machine in the past, and had just used whatever the CentOS install configured up for me. Despite the foregoing wiki comments to the contrary, my new xorg is dumping core, see the full Xorg.0.log output a bit further below.

My question now is how do I clean this mess up? I have seen suggestions in various places that one can do a 'yum downgrade' on the xorg packages, but I have only found one such suggestion that actually included a sequence of specific commands, and they did not completely work on my system (from http://elrepo.org/bugs/view.php?id=355):

# this worked for me ...
yum remove xorg-x11-drv-modesetting xorg-x11-drivers

# ... but this did not!
yum downgrade xorg-x11-server-Xorg xorg-x11-server-common xorg-x11-server-utils xorg-x11-drv*

The second command above resulted in scads of messages like:
...
Only Upgrade available on package: xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.13.0-11.el6.centos.x86_64
Only Upgrade available on package: xorg-x11-server-common-1.13.0-11.el6.centos.x86_64
Only Upgrade available on package: xorg-x11-server-utils-7.5-13.el6.x86_64
Only Upgrade available on package: xorg-x11-drv-acecad-1.5.0-6.el6.x86_64
Only Upgrade available on package: xorg-x11-drv-aiptek-1.4.1-4.el6.x86_64
Only Upgrade available on package: xorg-x11-drv-apm-1.2.5-5.el6.x86_64

Can anyone tell me (in as specific a manner as possible) how to use yum (or rpm directly) to go back to the latest pre-1.13 xorg packages? And if I do that, is it going to break other stuff (like gnome, kde, etc.) that might have xorg 1.13 dependencies? If I exclude all xorg packages from future upgrades will I never get any more gnome, etc., updates?

And finally, is anyone working on fixes to these xorg problems? This is certainly a huge headache for me, having several of these onboard ATI chipset systems plus a few more systems with older nvidia cards.

Thanks!

Roger Davis
Univ. of Hawaii

My Xorg.0.log follows:

X.Org X Server 1.13.0
Release Date: 2012-09-05
[ 42.620] X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
[ 42.620] Build Operating System: c6b7 2.6.32-220.el6.x86_64
[ 42.620] Current Operating System: Linux adc1.soest.hawaii.edu 2.6.32-358.2.1.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Mar 13 00:26:49 UTC 2013 x86_64
[ 42.621] Kernel command line: ro root=UUID=c2dca846-6785-42d8-b781-1b08937e77ef rd_NO_LUKS rd_NO_LVM LANG=en_US.UTF-8 rd_NO_MD quiet SYSFONT=latarcyrheb-sun16 rhgb KEYBOARDTYPE=pc KEYTABLE=us rd_NO_DM
[ 42.621] Build Date: 22 February 2013 11:30:37AM
[ 42.621] Build ID: xorg-x11-server 1.13.0-11.el6.centos
[ 42.621] Current version of pixman: 0.26.2
[ 42.621] Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.centos.org/Documentation
to make sure that you have the latest version.
[ 42.621] Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
(++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
(WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
[ 42.621] (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Fri Mar 22 20:23:00 2013
[ 42.656] (II) Loader magic: 0x810020
[ 42.656] (II) Module ABI versions:
[ 42.656] X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.4
[ 42.656] X.Org Video Driver: 13.1
[ 42.656] X.Org XInput driver : 18.0
[ 42.656] X.Org Server Extension : 7.0
[ 42.658] (--) PCI:*(0:6:2:0) 1002:4752:15d9:6980 rev 39, Mem @ 0xfd000000/16777216, 0xfeaff000/4096, I/O @ 0x0000d800/256, BIOS @ 0x????????/131072
[ 42.658] (==) Using default built-in configuration (39 lines)
[ 42.658] (==) --- Start of built-in configuration ---
[ 42.658] Section "Device"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default ati Device 0"
[ 42.658] Driver "ati"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "Screen"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default ati Screen 0"
[ 42.658] Device "Builtin Default ati Device 0"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "Device"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default vesa Device 0"
[ 42.658] Driver "vesa"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "Screen"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default vesa Screen 0"
[ 42.658] Device "Builtin Default vesa Device 0"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "Device"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default modesetting Device 0"
[ 42.658] Driver "modesetting"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "Screen"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default modesetting Screen 0"
[ 42.658] Device "Builtin Default modesetting Device 0"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "Device"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default fbdev Device 0"
[ 42.658] Driver "fbdev"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "Screen"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default fbdev Screen 0"
[ 42.658] Device "Builtin Default fbdev Device 0"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] Section "ServerLayout"
[ 42.658] Identifier "Builtin Default Layout"
[ 42.658] Screen "Builtin Default ati Screen 0"
[ 42.658] Screen "Builtin Default vesa Screen 0"
[ 42.658] Screen "Builtin Default modesetting Screen 0"
[ 42.658] Screen "Builtin Default fbdev Screen 0"
[ 42.658] EndSection
[ 42.658] (==) --- End of built-in configuration ---
[ 42.659] (==) ServerLayout "Builtin Default Layout"
[ 42.659] (**) |-->Screen "Builtin Default ati Screen 0" (0)
[ 42.659] (**) | |-->Monitor ""
[ 42.660] (**) | |-->Device "Builtin Default ati Device 0"
[ 42.660] (==) No monitor specified for screen "Builtin Default ati Screen 0".
Using a default monitor configuration.
[ 42.660] (**) |-->Screen "Builtin Default vesa Screen 0" (1)
[ 42.660] (**) | |-->Monitor ""
[ 42.661] (**) | |-->Device "Builtin Default vesa Device 0"
[ 42.661] (==) No monitor specified for screen "Builtin Default vesa Screen 0".
Using a default monitor configuration.
[ 42.661] (**) |-->Screen "Builtin Default modesetting Screen 0" (2)
[ 42.661] (**) | |-->Monitor ""
[ 42.661] (**) | |-->Device "Builtin Default modesetting Device 0"
[ 42.661] (==) No monitor specified for screen "Builtin Default modesetting Screen 0".
Using a default monitor configuration.
[ 42.661] (**) |-->Screen "Builtin Default fbdev Screen 0" (3)
[ 42.661] (**) | |-->Monitor ""
[ 42.661] (**) | |-->Device "Builtin Default fbdev Device 0"
[ 42.661] (==) No monitor specified for screen "Builtin Default fbdev Screen 0".
Using a default monitor configuration.
[ 42.661] (==) Automatically adding devices
[ 42.661] (==) Automatically enabling devices
[ 42.661] (==) Not automatically adding GPU devices
[ 42.661] (==) FontPath set to:
catalogue:/etc/X11/fontpath.d,
built-ins
[ 42.661] (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/lib64/xorg/modules"
[ 42.661] (II) The server relies on HAL to provide the list of input devices.
If no devices become available, reconfigure HAL or disable AutoAddDevices.
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension Generic Event Extension
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension SHAPE
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension MIT-SHM
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XInputExtension
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XTEST
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension BIG-REQUESTS
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension SYNC
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XKEYBOARD
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XC-MISC
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XINERAMA
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XFIXES
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension RENDER
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension RANDR
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension DAMAGE
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension DOUBLE-BUFFER
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension RECORD
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension DPMS
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension X-Resource
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XVideo
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XVideo-MotionCompensation
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension SELinux
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XFree86-VidModeExtension
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XFree86-DGA
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension XFree86-DRI
[ 42.662] Initializing built-in extension DRI2
[ 42.662] (II) LoadModule: "glx"
[ 42.674] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so
[ 42.694] (II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.694] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 1.0.0
[ 42.694] ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 7.0
[ 42.694] (==) AIGLX enabled
[ 42.694] Loading extension GLX
[ 42.694] (II) LoadModule: "ati"
[ 42.694] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/ati_drv.so
[ 42.720] (II) Module ati: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.720] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 6.99.99
[ 42.720] Module class: X.Org Video Driver
[ 42.720] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.720] (II) LoadModule: "mach64"
[ 42.720] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/mach64_drv.so
[ 42.733] (II) Module mach64: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.733] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 6.9.3
[ 42.733] Module class: X.Org Video Driver
[ 42.733] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.733] (II) LoadModule: "vesa"
[ 42.734] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/vesa_drv.so
[ 42.738] (II) Module vesa: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.738] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 2.3.2
[ 42.738] Module class: X.Org Video Driver
[ 42.738] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.738] (II) LoadModule: "modesetting"
[ 42.738] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/modesetting_drv.so
[ 42.746] (II) Module modesetting: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.746] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 0.5.0
[ 42.746] Module class: X.Org Video Driver
[ 42.746] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.746] (II) LoadModule: "fbdev"
[ 42.747] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/fbdev_drv.so
[ 42.756] (II) Module fbdev: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.756] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 0.4.3
[ 42.756] Module class: X.Org Video Driver
[ 42.756] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.756] (II) MACH64: Driver for ATI Mach64 chipsets
[ 42.756] (II) VESA: driver for VESA chipsets: vesa
[ 42.756] (II) modesetting: Driver for Modesetting Kernel Drivers: kms
[ 42.756] (II) FBDEV: driver for framebuffer: fbdev
[ 42.756] (++) using VT number 1
[ 42.757] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for vesa
[ 42.757] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for modesetting
[ 42.758] (EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory
[ 42.758] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for fbdev
[ 42.758] (II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw"
[ 42.758] (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw"
[ 42.758] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/libfbdevhw.so
[ 42.768] (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.768] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 0.0.2
[ 42.768] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.771] (EE) open /dev/fb0: No such device
[ 42.771] (II) MACH64(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section
"Builtin Default ati Screen 0" for depth/fbbpp 16/16
[ 42.771] (==) MACH64(0): Depth 16, (--) framebuffer bpp 16
[ 42.771] (==) MACH64(0): Using XAA acceleration architecture
[ 42.771] (II) MACH64: Mach64 in slot 6:2:0 detected.
[ 42.771] (II) Loading sub module "int10"
[ 42.771] (II) LoadModule: "int10"
[ 42.771] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/libint10.so
[ 42.777] (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.777] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 1.0.0
[ 42.777] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.784] (II) MACH64(0): Primary V_BIOS segment is: 0xc000
[ 42.784] (II) Loading sub module "ddc"
[ 42.784] (II) LoadModule: "ddc"
[ 42.784] (II) Module "ddc" already built-in
[ 42.784] (II) Loading sub module "vbe"
[ 42.784] (II) LoadModule: "vbe"
[ 42.785] (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/libvbe.so
[ 42.788] (II) Module vbe: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 42.788] compiled for 1.13.0, module version = 1.1.0
[ 42.788] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 13.1
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA BIOS detected
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE Version 2.0
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE Total Mem: 8128 kB
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE OEM: ATI MACH64
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 1.0
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: MACH64GM
[ 42.788] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: 01.00
[ 42.790] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE DDC supported
[ 42.790] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE DDC Level 2
[ 42.790] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE DDC transfer in appr. 2 sec.
[ 42.911] (II) MACH64(0): VESA VBE DDC read successfully
[ 42.912] (II) UnloadSubModule: "vbe"
[ 42.912] (II) Unloading vbe
[ 42.912] (II) UnloadSubModule: "int10"
[ 42.912] (II) Unloading int10
[ 42.912] (II) UnloadSubModule: ""
[ 42.912] (II) Unloading
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): Manufacturer: NEC Model: 65e8 Serial#: 44856
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): Year: 2004 Week: 28
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): EDID Version: 1.3
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): Analog Display Input, Input Voltage Level: 0.700/0.300 V
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): Sync: Separate Composite SyncOnGreen
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 36 vert.: 29
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): Gamma: 2.20
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): DPMS capabilities: StandBy Suspend Off; RGB/Color Display
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): Default color space is primary color space
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): First detailed timing is preferred mode
[ 42.912] (II) MACH64(0): redX: 0.633 redY: 0.340 greenX: 0.295 greenY: 0.600
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): blueX: 0.141 blueY: 0.096 whiteX: 0.313 whiteY: 0.329
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): Supported established timings:
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 720x400@70Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 640x480@60Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 640x480@67Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 640x480@72Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 640x480@75Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 800x600@56Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 800x600@60Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 800x600@72Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 800x600@75Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 832x624@75Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 1024x768@60Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 1024x768@70Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 1024x768@75Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 1280x1024@75Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 1152x864@75Hz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): Supported standard timings:
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): #0: hsize: 640 vsize 480 refresh: 85 vid: 22833
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): #1: hsize: 800 vsize 600 refresh: 85 vid: 22853
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): #2: hsize: 1024 vsize 768 refresh: 85 vid: 22881
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): #3: hsize: 1280 vsize 1024 refresh: 60 vid: 32897
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): Supported detailed timing:
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): clock: 135.0 MHz Image Size: 359 x 287 mm
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1296 h_sync_end 1440 h_blank_end 1688 h_border: 0
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): v_active: 1024 v_sync: 1025 v_sync_end 1028 v_blanking: 1066 v_border: 0
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): Ranges: V min: 55 V max: 85 Hz, H min: 31 H max: 82 kHz, PixClock max 145 MHz
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): Monitor name: NEC LCD1860NX
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): Serial No: 47144856YA
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): EDID (in hex):
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 00ffffffffffff0038a3e86538af0000
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 1c0e01030e241d78ee0a25a2574b9924
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 185054bfef8031594559615981800101
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 010101010101bc34009851002a401090
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 1300671f1100001e000000fd0037551f
[ 42.913] (II) MACH64(0): 520e000a202020202020000000fc004e
[ 42.914] (II) MACH64(0): 4543204c4344313836304e58000000ff
[ 42.914] (II) MACH64(0): 00343731343438353659410a202000ce
[ 42.914] (II) MACH64(0): EDID vendor "NEC", prod id 26088
[ 42.914] (EE)
[ 42.914] (EE) Backtrace:
[ 42.927] (EE) 0: /usr/bin/Xorg (xorg_backtrace+0x36) [0x46cd76]
[ 42.927] (EE) 1: /usr/bin/Xorg (0x400000+0x72ad9) [0x472ad9]
[ 42.927] (EE) 2: /lib64/libpthread.so.0 (0x7f2f52828000+0xf500) [0x7f2f52837500]
[ 42.927] (EE) 3: /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x7f2f50f0b000+0x79244) [0x7f2f50f84244]
[ 42.927] (EE) 4: /lib64/libc.so.6 (__libc_malloc+0x71) [0x7f2f50f85911]
[ 42.927] (EE) 5: /lib64/libc.so.6 (__vasprintf_chk+0x158) [0x7f2f5100cef8]
[ 42.927] (EE) 6: /usr/bin/Xorg (XNFvasprintf+0x14) [0x478f84]
[ 42.928] (EE) 7: /usr/bin/Xorg (XNFasprintf+0x88) [0x479118]
[ 42.928] (EE) 8: /usr/bin/Xorg (xf86DuplicateMode+0x68) [0x4ccb08]
[ 42.928] (EE) 9: /usr/bin/Xorg (xf86DDCGetModes+0x152) [0x4caff2]
[ 42.928] (EE) 10: /usr/bin/Xorg (xf86EdidMonitorSet+0x72) [0x4cb1a2]
[ 42.928] (EE) 11: /usr/bin/Xorg (xf86SetDDCproperties+0x7b) [0x4d964b]
[ 42.928] (EE) 12: /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/mach64_drv.so (0x7f2f4ff7c000+0x1227a) [0x7f2f4ff8e27a]
[ 42.928] (EE) 13: /usr/bin/Xorg (InitOutput+0xa37) [0x48f6e7]
[ 42.928] (EE) 14: /usr/bin/Xorg (0x400000+0x7c9c3) [0x47c9c3]
[ 42.928] (EE) 15: /lib64/libc.so.6 (__libc_start_main+0xfd) [0x7f2f50f29cdd]
[ 42.928] (EE) 16: /usr/bin/Xorg (0x400000+0x260b9) [0x4260b9]
[ 42.928] (EE)
[ 42.928] (EE) Segmentation fault at address 0x0
[ 42.929]
Fatal server error:
[ 42.929] Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting

rbdavis
Posts: 14
Joined: 2007/07/31 23:49:00

Re: bitten by 6.4 Xorg 1.13 ATI bug

Post by rbdavis » 2013/03/23 21:38:03

No responses to my query in this forum, but I did find useful help in the General Support forum. See the thread 'Upgrade from 6.3 to 6.4 has done X in: need to downgrade xorg*' over there. Thanks to the folks who supplied that solution!

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AlanBartlett
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Re: [SOLVED] bitten by 6.4 Xorg 1.13 ATI bug

Post by AlanBartlett » 2013/03/23 23:02:57

It's the weekend.

All persons, who try to assist by posting in any of the [i]CentOS[/i] fora, are volunteers.

I'm sorry that you have not had the personal attention, to which you feel entitled.

On your behalf and for posterity, this thread is now marked [SOLVED].

rbdavis
Posts: 14
Joined: 2007/07/31 23:49:00

Re: [SOLVED] bitten by 6.4 Xorg 1.13 ATI bug

Post by rbdavis » 2013/03/25 18:50:10

Hi Alan,

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how you interpreted my last remark 'No responses to my query in this forum, but I did find useful help ...' as some sort of rant, but oh well. I am well aware that the people who provide help here are volunteers and I feel entitled to absolutely nothing. I mostly wanted to just provide a pointer to a solution to others who might encounter this problem -- in other words, I was trying to be of help. Sorry you didn't see it that way.

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toracat
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[SOLVED] bitten by 6.4 Xorg 1.13 ATI bug

Post by toracat » 2013/03/25 20:27:54

I think there was a slight misunderstanding there. :-( Your message is loud and clear. :-)

At times (not often though) there are users who complain that they do not get answers here. So, [b]Alan[/b] reacted to the words "No response". :-D

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