14:01:31 <alphacc> #startmeeting CentOS Board town hall meeting 2021-08
14:01:31 <centbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 18 14:01:31 2021 UTC.  The chair is alphacc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:31 <centbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:32 <jcpunk> greetings
14:01:41 <alphacc> hello o/
14:01:45 <dcavalca> morning folks
14:02:21 <rbowen> Hi folks
14:02:36 <rbowen> I'm a little distracted right now but you'll have my fuller attention in a little bit.
14:02:52 <rbowen> If you have questions that you'd like to ask but don't want your name on them: https://forms.gle/G9SrUgyZH4cnA2wA9
14:03:19 <alphacc> #link https://forms.gle/G9SrUgyZH4cnA2wA9
14:03:33 <alphacc> #link https://blog.centos.org/2021/08/minutes-for-centos-board-of-directors-for-2021-08-11/
14:06:52 <alphacc> Any question around the points raised during our Board meeting last week ?
14:09:12 <jwboyer> hello!
14:14:00 <jcpunk> Noting the silence, are there any additional thoughts on the logo/artwork/branding?
14:15:22 <jcpunk> #link https://git.centos.org/centos/board/issues
14:16:43 <billings> I'm hoping the old logo is available for swag at some point.
14:16:56 <billings> at least, the non-text one
14:17:20 <dcavalca> my understanding is that the plan is to keep the old logo around as a "classic" logo
14:17:52 <billings> I'd really like to see at least a sticker for the classic logo
14:18:08 <arrfab> billings: "nostalgia" ? :)
14:18:15 <billings> its more colorful
14:18:35 <billings> (the new logo is monochrome)
14:18:54 <dcavalca> I actually thought we already had centos swag on the redhat cool store but I can't find it right now
14:19:22 * dcavalca remembers ordering hats and t-shirts from there a couple of years ago
14:22:48 <jcpunk> Are there any topics folks are interested in for the upcoming CentOS Dojo?
14:27:55 <bexelbie> Sorry my calendar invite did not remind me properly - most likely PEBKAC :(
14:37:33 <rbowen> Ok, that went a lot longer than expected. Do we have any interesting questions?
14:37:46 <rbowen> We have two anonymous questions:
14:37:47 <rbowen> When will approximately CentOS stream 9 be ready? What will be the upgrade path for from 8 stream? (Will it be a dnf system-upgrade download —releasever=xx like fedora, or something different?)
14:38:25 <rbowen> Re: Old logo - yes we expect to keep it around as a classic. That's actually useful from a trademark perspective, too, since if we keep using it, we can still defend the mark, legally.
14:39:08 <rbowen> Q2 is related: Is there a feature roadmap for CentOS Stream 9
14:39:45 <rbowen> Anybody want to tackle either of those questions?
14:40:24 <rbowen> We have board members here: bexelbie alphacc jcpunk dcavalca and jwboyer
14:40:33 <rbowen> If anyone has any questions for them, please speak up.
14:40:41 <jcpunk> re: stream 8 -> stream 9 upgrades, I'd love for the community to weigh in on what options they'd like to see.  With the potential changes between the two releases (module streams available being the big one) I'm not sure what sort of edge cases could arrise
14:41:16 <jcpunk> On the roadmap front, bexelbie, is the jira open to the public?
14:41:49 <bexelbie> Not generally, except for items contributed by the community.  Red Hat's product plans are confidential
14:41:56 <bexelbie> obviously the code we are commiting is open ...
14:42:04 <bexelbie> and the associated conversations, etc
14:42:16 <dcavalca> it's worth pointing out that one can download c9s composes now from you can download c9s composes now at https://composes.stream.centos.org/production/
14:44:23 <rbowen> Q3: Does Red Hat view major version upgrades as a premium paid feature that will never be allowed for Stream?
14:44:53 <rbowen> I don't think we have that feature in RHEL either, do we? Am I confused?
14:44:54 <dcavalca> uh, does RHEL even support in-place major version upgrades?
14:44:58 <ykarel> Is there some update wrt allowing c9s builds in CBS?
14:45:13 <dcavalca> the only thing I know of is leapp, but I'm not sure how usable that is in practice
14:45:13 <jcpunk> I think the question is about leap
14:45:14 <ykarel> not sure if the question relevant for this meeting
14:45:19 <rbowen> ykarel: We already have SIGs doing that.
14:45:33 <hughesjr> centos does not support leapp
14:46:06 <ykarel> rbowen, really, /me checks
14:46:10 <rbowen> ykarel: Is there a more specific question?
14:46:29 <dcavalca> ykarel: rbowen: c9s builds on CBS are still being worked on, but there is recent progress
14:46:47 <dcavalca> see https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/324#comment-748291 and https://pagure.io/centos-infra/issue/336#comment-748290
14:47:42 <rbowen> ykarel: I'm sorry, I misread your question. You said 9s not 8s.
14:47:47 <rbowen> Oops.
14:47:54 <ykarel> dcavalca, Thanks for the update, will ask for including cloudsig tags as well
14:48:00 <ykarel> rbowen, np
14:48:02 <hughesjr> c9s is alpha stage right now .. we (the stream team inside redhat) are still working on functionality for builders and mirros, etc
14:48:28 <dcavalca> re: upgrades, my gut feeling is that if someone wanted to drive support for in-place major version updates for CentOS as part of a SIG, that would be perfectly fine
14:48:49 <jcpunk> indeed!
14:49:01 <hughesjr> dcavalca: it should be OK if someone wanted to do the work
14:49:13 <rbowen> That's the answer that was given when this was asked in the recent AMA with Mike McGrath and Gunnar Hellekson.
14:49:27 <bexelbie> It is the answer I would expect, barring detail issues
14:49:33 <hughesjr> but i have been asking for comunity supported update capability for YEARS since CetnOS-5
14:49:40 <rbowen> I believe what they said was "it's not a priority for Red Hat, but if someone wants to do it, that would be awesome" or something that effect.
14:50:14 <hughesjr> I never get any volunteers
14:50:52 <rbowen> Once again, if folks have questions they'd like to ask anonymously, you can do so at https://forms.gle/rogNaKb57h68vqDv7
14:52:02 <dcavalca> I suspect reusing the mechanics that Fedora has via dnf system-upgrade would be fairly straightforward
14:52:11 <dcavalca> getting it to actually work reliably for most/all usecases and building a QA pipeline to ensure that would likely be a ton of work though
14:52:21 <jcpunk> my worry there is what to do with eol module streams
14:52:50 <dcavalca> yup, that also complicates things significantly
14:52:59 <hughesjr> well .. and that does not even touch on the major difference in application data conversions for the major app upgrades
14:53:11 <rbowen> For those who have not seen it yet, the minutes of last week's board meeting are here: https://blog.centos.org/2021/08/minutes-for-centos-board-of-directors-for-2021-08-11/
14:53:19 <hughesjr> (ie, php, sql dbs, etc)
14:53:39 <rbowen> And the complete recording of the meeting is here: https://youtu.be/bDNKlbje2ug
14:53:46 <dcavalca> hughesjr: oh for sure, that's a whole different can of worms there
14:53:46 <rbowen> Watching board meetings is *so* exciting.
14:53:56 <carlwgeorge> all those edge cases are why leapp exists
14:55:05 <jcpunk> Over the years I've gone from "must upgrade" to "thankfully I get to test my recovery documentation via a reinstall"
14:55:47 <jcpunk> Upgrades are handy, but discovering I never wrote down what I did on this box during a real disaster is sad
14:56:36 <bexelbie> On a personal level, I do something similar to jcpunk - I exercise my ansible-playbooks
14:57:33 <rbowen> We are almost out of time here. Any last questions?
14:57:52 <rbowen> Of course, you can ask questions any time in #centos-devel and many of the Directors are there.
15:02:29 <alphacc> Closing in 1 min !
15:02:44 <rbowen> Thank you all for your questions. We are at the end of the hour. Apologies for my absence the first half. If you have any more questions, please do ask either over on #centos-devel, or bring them to the mailing list.
15:04:17 <alphacc> #endmeeting